Full Transcript: Jamarlin Martin Discusses J Edgar Hoover Energy And The Rat Psychology Guiding Negro Politics: Part 1 On GHOGH Podcast

In episode 71 of the GHOGH podcast, Jamarlin Martin discusses how J. Edgar Hoover’s goal to water down and neutralize strong Black politics involved informants and agents trading money and status for the water-down.

How did Black American politics become so corporate, elitist and pro-status quo? Have the mind and values of the traditional informant been injected into the Black political bloodstream?

Jamarlin discusses Pharrell Williams’ term, the “new Black,” that ignores race and how he partnered with the Israel Defense Forces. Jamarlin also discusses how covid-19 is going to fix the “new Black” bubble and pop it, for the good.

You can listen to the entire conversation right now in the audio player below. If you prefer to listen on your phone, GHOGH with Jamarlin Martin is available wherever you listen to podcasts — including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and SoundCloud.

Listen to GHOGH with Jamarlin Martin | Episode 71: Jamarlin Martin

Part 1: Jamarlin Martin discusses how J. Edgar Hoover’s goal to water down and neutralize strong Black politics involved informants and agents trading money and status for the water-down.

This is a full transcript of the conversation which has been lightly edited for clarity.

Jamarlin Martin: You’re listening to GHOGH with Jamarlin Martin. We have a go hard or go home approach as we talk to the leading tech leaders, politicians and influencers. Let’s GHOGH! The title of this GHOGH episode is called “J Edgar Hoover Energy And The Rat Psychology Guiding Negro Politics”. I saw something online about, there’s some funny jokes about the rapper Tekashi 6ix9ine getting out of jail. He was a government informant against gang members in New York and so he moved against some of his enemies in terms of working for the government and telling on a lot of folks, a lot of Black men. He was a government informant. So people are making jokes because snitching is not cool in hip hop. It’s not supposed to be cool in hip hop. And he’s coming out racking up a massive amount of YouTube views, a new video and he’s a snitch. He’s come out and said that people are mad at him because he can come out and he was a snitch. He was a rat and he put a rat in his video. He comes out and says, Hey, I’m doing more numbers than the people calling me a rat and I’m a rat.

Jamarlin Martin: He’s legitimizing working for the feds and putting people behind bars as a trade. I’m going to use this term a lot in terms of trade and trading. So Tekashi 6ix9ine, he has a lot of cases, he works out a deal with the feds and he puts a lot of blood gang members, who he was rolling with, behind bars. When there’s a subject, there’s a shallow way to look at it and then there’s a deeper way to look at it. There’s a tired way to look at it and then there’s a wired way to look at it. You say, Hey, let’s all, you know, bag on Tekashi 6ix9ine, he’s a government informant, he’s an agent, blah, blah, blah. That got me thinking in terms of, I had read a report that Desiree Perez, who’s the now the CEO of Roc Nation, that she actually wore wires for the government. And so you have this hip hop institution and it is great. You’ve got Jay-Z and Black folks managing other Black folks and the agency is Black and it’s Black, it’s Black, it’s Black. And that’s great. That’s symbolically great. And it’s good to see that, it looks like we’re taking control over our own affairs in terms of not being managed by others working with each other.

Jamarlin Martin: So on the surface that looks good. You want to see Black people doing for self, building businesses and taking things under our own control. When Desiree Perez comes in as the CEO, taking over from this white guy at Roc Nation, I had read a report that she was a government informative at one point. In terms of where hip hop is today, I would think that a former government agent who has traded information with the U.S. government, has traded, uh, information with the federal authorities for freedom. And she’s sending a lot of people to jail in terms of her trading. That is more significant in terms of hip hop culture in Black America than what Tekashi 6ix9ine is doing. Because you’re talking about an informant, a former informant on top of this big influential institution.

03:51 — Jamarlin Martin: I got to thinking, of course we’ve had an episode on GHOGH about John Ali who I and many others believe was the top government agent in the Nation of Islam and he helped take down Malcolm X and weaken the Nation of Islam. I’m thinking that the tricknology of the U.S. government is going to change over time. J. Edgar Hoover, who I believe was a mastermind, this guy was brilliant at what he did. He knew how to come into Black America, Black organizations, Black religious organizations, Black nationalist groups. He knew how to use his resources and use other Black leaders, other Black people who are willing to trade, use that against the masses of Black people. He was very sophisticated at what he was doing. We’ve already covered John Ali and of course, there is still a part two of John Ali that I will be releasing. I just have one more gap to fill before I release part two. But I got to thinking when I was reading about Desiree Perez and Roc Nation and how you have a former federal agent or informant at the top of Roc Nation. We have to consider that when you look at Black politics and the state that we’re in, where the people have been weakened with various forces and various leaders, the people don’t have the same strong voice that we had in the 90s or even the 80s.

Jamarlin Martin: Meaning that the Black psychology has been tampered with. It’s now on the side of corruption. It’s now on the side of elitism. But in order to get the Black psychology away from banging for people on the bottom, banging for the poor, in order to get it away from that tradition, that Black nationalist tradition, you would need agents and leaders to get the minds over to this other side, this new kind of corporatized side. Now, you’re on the side of the elites because some of your Black figures and celebrities and politicians, they’re now hooked up with the elites and now you’re over there. And so I got to thinking, I said, the U.S. government, if it wanted to water down Black politics where the U.S. government has always been fearful of Black people rising up, becoming unified, start making demands collectively of being well-organized. The government has always had a paranoia of the people going to that side. If the government wanted to mitigate that risk, it would consider coming into the Democratic party or coming into some hip hop figures, with trades. They’re gonna offer the figure something where they could water the Black politics and the Black strength. They could water it down with this new stuff or what Pharrell would call the “new Black”, which we’re gonna get into.

07:11 — Jamarlin Martin: I said, I have to accept the possibility. It’s not a spooky possibility that the FBI and the U.S. government has partnered with some of these people out here who can manipulate a political psychology on the people. They can make trades where the people are no longer banging against the establishment like they were before. They have become the establishment. They have aspirations to be the establishment. They have an aspiration to be a part of the elite class and in a sense, effectively keep the boot on the Black masses and Black America, particularly the poor. I said, I got to consider that the U.S. government is working with some of these people, some of these celebrity idols that the people are looking up to. They see them with money, but they may not have an understanding that trades may have been taking place. Not necessarily with all the leaders in terms of being papered up as informants or agents or with the government or the intelligence agencies, but some trades have taken place at the very top of Black America where there is an exchange for years for the people’s soul and for the purity of the politics. There’s been trades where the money is going to the people at the top who are playing the game, who are making the trades for individual benefit and some of them may believe that their trading actually helps Black people.

Jamarlin Martin: In their own mind, they think that when they do these trades with corporations or the government or whatever they come up with, they may think or try to rationalize that they’re trading where they personally benefit helps Black America. I thought about, I said, look, if Desiree Perez used to be a government informant and Jay-Z all these years and all these decades, I was a big Jay-Z fan, I don’t listen to his music that much anymore. I was a big Jay-Z fan, but there were some things that he was doing that I really liked. I liked the direction of his music, but there are some things that I saw in terms of the way he was moving where I had to back up. I can say, it’s good that this brother’s out here building his business. He’s building institutions. He’s setting example. All that stuff is good, but the way he’s moving and the way I think, it’s hard for me to listen to a lot of Jay-Z now. He’s moved in a way where an informant would move, some type of government operative. That doesn’t mean that he’s directly working for the government. I’m just saying that the way he’s moving, it seems like he could be on the side of the U.S. government.

10:03 — Jamarlin Martin: My perspective is, in terms of hip hop and music, I’m not moving to that side because one of your idols or somebody, you like the music, and they want to move to that side. I’m not going to like your music enough where you moving like the FBI or the U.S. government and you’re making these trades at the top, and I can just push that to the side. I’m not built like that. And so because Jay-Z for example, partners with the NFL and seeks to stop kneeling and tone things down and then he gets a check. See, that translates to me how some type of informant agent would be moving. This Desiree Perez, there’s testimony essentially online where the prosecutor says how helpful she was in terms of wearing wires and trapping drug dealers. And so you have a CEO at Roc Nation who used to wear wires for the FBI. If the Roc Nation CEO used to wear a wire for the FBI, in the 90s hip hop, it’s all hands, you have disk tracts coming out. But in this temperature, the people have idols set up, they have what I would call sacred cows, meaning that you can’t criticize or you can ask any questions about some of these people who have become idols in the culture.

Jamarlin Martin: The Roc Nation has a former FBI agent or informant that used to wear wires and that made trades to make sure that she’s free to work with people like Jay-Z and put other people behind bars. That’s OK now, because the mind of Black America and hip hop culture has been restructured, like an informant, meaning that idols have been presented to you in terms of people who have a lot of money, people with a lot of fame and talented. Idols have been pushed in front of you, where you will give up certain principles or certain values, and the masses of the people will make a trade with the leader. They believe in the leaders. If the leader’s trading for money, the people will come along because they’re looking for heroes, they’re looking for idols, they’re looking for something to believe in. And so a lot of people see Jay-Z’s success and they’ll say, it doesn’t matter if someone who’s connected to the FBI is running Roc Nation.

12:36 — Jamarlin Martin: However, the way I’m trained and my understanding is that if you have someone who’s working with the FBI or at that level with the U.S. government and has traded for freedom, you don’t know how they could be making certain moves. You don’t know why. You don’t have the rationale in terms of what’s going on behind these rooms. Where Jay-Z on one hand says he’s not going to mess with the NFL as an institution until they bring back Kap. And then he flips, and within 12 months of protesting the NFL, he flips into a pro-NFL position, Roc Nation partners with the NFL, Desiree Perez, the former informant, she partners with the NFL. Roc Nation is partnering with the NFL. And so based on the history and my knowledge of how the U.S. government moves, particularly on Black America, you have to leave open the possibility that Desiree Perez on the top of Roc Nation is a connection with the U.S. government in some way. And when you see these big deals that have the implication of if Jay-Z says it’s OK to embrace the NFL and stop causing all this trouble and stop these protests about police violence, if Jay-Z can come and naturalize and legitimize the NFL again, that may not just be a superficial commercial trade for the politics. You can help us get Black people more involved with the NFL.They believe in you and we will give you a check.

Jamarlin Martin: It may not be just a trade where it’s money involved because Roc Nation was the entity that partnered with the NFL. You have someone connected with the FBI and the U.S. government. You don’t know. I’m not accusing Desiree Perez or Roc Nation or Jay-Z of working with the government right now in terms of some type of political agenda, some type of watered down agenda where we want to water down the Black political psychology. We want to water down the Black political movement. But it doesn’t matter if they’re papered up in a deal with the U.S. government because if you’re moving with that J. Edgar Hoover energy, you may not be papered up as an informant, as an agent right now, but you’re moving in a way where it looks like you’re trading and you look like you are scaling the mind of an informant on the masses of Black people. So it doesn’t matter if you’re really papered up or not with the U.S. government. The outcome is it looks like you’re taking money to water down the Black political voice and you’re trying to replace it with this “new Black” stuff.

15:36 — Jamarlin Martin: And so I started thinking about the possibility that the U.S. government is working with some or has been working with some powerful hip hop figures behind the scenes. And this has allowed them in part to become so successful because they have hidden government support. They’re dealing at a level where they could have protection from the U.S. government. And so when I say protection from the U.S. government, that just doesn’t mean you may be beating cases, meaning that Jay-Z was charged with assault in a stabbing of Lance “Un” Rivera and he had three assault charges, one gun possession charge, and the cases disappeared. Now he pleaded guilty to stabbing Lance “Un” Rivera, but he only got probation. When you’re thinking about what’s going on at these very high levels, you’re saying, look, if Roc Nation has a former FBI informant as CEO, you start to think about, how is Jay-Z beating all these cases?

Jamarlin Martin: We know that if you have money, good lawyers, you improve your position. But for Jay-Z to admit stabbing another man and for him to have multiple assault cases during this time and the gun possession case to be dropped, most likely there is some type of maneuvering going on. It could be payoffs, it could be government support. I don’t know. But we know in the streets that when someone is beating cases like this and they’re untouchable, there could be government involvement. The government has made a deal where they have agreed to cooperate in a certain fashion. And so I would never bring this up as a point unless there’s additional supplemental complimentary evidence that Roc Nation as an institution has embraced an informant, FBI informant to run the institution. And so it so happens that you have a former government informant at the top of Roc Nation and you’re doing these big deals with the NFL, which could have implications of pacifying the political voice of Black America in terms of protection.

18:03 — Jamarlin Martin: We know that William Bradley, the shotgun assassin who took out Malcolm X, many believed that he was a government informant. And so William Bradley himself said that the government and the police, they never questioned him about firing that shotgun. They never even questioned him about it although people in New Jersey and a lot of insiders, they always knew that William Bradley was the one who blasted our brother Malcolm X. And you know, there is increasing amount of evidence that William Bradley was a government informant and so he had most likely protection after the assassination. This is how I kinda got here to this particular episode in terms of thinking through this stuff. So let’s start with a quote by Pharrell on the “new Black”. So in 2014, Pharrell said, “The “new Black” doesn’t blame other races for our issues.” Said Pharrell, one of the world’s most successful musicians. “The “new Black” dreams and realizes that it’s not pigmentation, it’s mentality. It’s either going to work for you or it’s going to work against you and you’ve got to pick a side you’re going to be on.”

Jamarlin Martin: Pharrell is evangelizing this thinking that it’s not about race anymore. He’s saying that there’s such a thing as the “new Black”. You shouldn’t be engaging other races in terms of white supremacy or talking about racism or talking about the rigged justice system that’s played out in Black America. What Pharrell is saying that there’s a “new Black” where it’s about success and stop talking about all this race stuff. He’s ushering in a new ideology because as the article says, Pharrell is very influential in hip hop. He’s influential actually in politics because essentially he’s doing political stuff. So at the time or after, Pharrell says that he’s not the old Black, he says he’s the “new Black” and he says that the “new Black” doesn’t blame other races for our issues. OK. So what else is for real? Pharrell doing besides evangelizing to Black folks, this “new Black”, what I would call a Barack Obama Black, a Pharrell Black, a Jay-Z Black. So this “new Black” is being popularized. OK. Or it was. We’re going to get to why I believe it’s going out. It’s not cool anymore. That the people at the very top of the food chain in Black culture and politics, that this “new Black” stuff is going out.

20:59 — Jamarlin Martin: So what was Pharrell doing after he’s saying that there’s this “new Black” that doesn’t really think about race and doesn’t really do anything about racism and, it’s not about that. OK. This “new Black”. Kanye will probably be in that bucket too. Pharrell, in 2018, he held a fundraiser on 13 November, this is the article, 2018. Pharrell Williams has been criticized on social media for performing in an annual fundraiser for the Israel Defense Forces, the IDF. Pharrell, Gerard Butler and Ashton Kutcher, they raised $60 million for the Israeli Defense Fund. So you say, Hey, when Pharrell says there’s such a thing as a “new Black”, you can say, Hey, that’s just music, that’s just culture. But Pharrell is out there raising $60 million for the Israeli military. What is a hip hop artist doing raising $60 million for the Israeli military? How did those two become connected? And then in this “new Black” world, this J. Edgar Hoover energy, the people have been watered down so much that it’s not a big deal for Pharrell to go out there and raise $60 million for the Israeli Defense Forces to support colonization against Palestinians or to support taking more land or to support killing Palestinian kids rising up. You see this pattern with these figures in terms of Barack Obama, Pharrell, Jay-Z, where they’re with the Israeli Defense Forces, they’re with institutions in political positions that may have money attached to them, success attached to them, but they are against freedom, justice and equality structurally for the masses.

Jamarlin Martin: So, these people are making trades, meaning that Pharrell can go in and partner with the Israeli Defense Forces, help them raise money, that’s going to help his business. He’s out there trading and the trading has been merged where it’s corporate and politics. Jay-Z, he does a corporate deal with the NFL, but there’s a political outcome desired by elites where calmness, noise and Black America about police violence down this protest with Kaepernick. It’s messing up the fabric of the country. If you have the J. Edgar Hoover energy, you’re always looking for Black people who you can sit down and rationalize what you’re looking for. You’re looking for a successful Black person to partner with from a political perspective where if you partner with this person that has become idolized, has become an idol in culture. If you can partner your political position or desired political outcomes, Black people love to see other Black people successful. The Black loyalty is there, it’s organic. We want to support each other. That’s natural. But if you contaminate it with J. Edgar Hoover energy and you don’t really go deep in your analysis and thinking on these things, the J. Edgar Hoover energy is going to overpower the loyalty.

Jamarlin Martin: If I want Black America to become more pro-Israel, I can partner with this person, wrap this position inside of them, and then if the people are supporting and they’re loyal to that Black figure, they want to see that person successful in moving things for, then I can bundle this swamp, I can bundle this nefarious agenda into the leaders that they worship. Or the leaders are going to move them to my political point of view and so, at the level that these people are playing at the top, AIPAC studied Black America. They studied their options and they said, look, we need to set up AIPAC chapters across the United States on HBCUs. So these people are very sophisticated. They’re well organized. And they said, look, to change the mind of the Black political actor, to change the minds of Black America, we need to have AIPAC lobbyist chapters on HBCU campuses. We need to go and groom leaders like Bakari Sellers and prop them up, help them get on CNN where they can help us shift the Black psychology over to our political agenda. And in exchange, we will prop these negro elites up. We’ll put them on TV.

26:08 — Jamarlin Martin: In Bakari Sellers’ case, he’s on the national council of AIPAC. And so he has made his trade over time with the organization in terms of AIPAC investing in changing the psychology, the Black politics in Black America. They’re doing it. They have a long-term play, where every 10 years, they probably see it as every five or 10 years. That position in Black America where you don’t align with a colonizer taking land or disenfranchising another group, it doesn’t matter who it is, including each other. You want to weaken that political position and so you’re going to partner with the negro elites. And so this is why I say that there’s a J. Edgar Hoover energy and there’s a rat psychology being scaled into the mind of Black America where the people don’t even know that they’re being guided in a J. Edgar Hoover rat psychology where it’s not cool anymore to bang against the establishment.

Jamarlin Martin: Now the leaders are making it cool to partner with the establishment with this “new Black” stuff that Pharrell is talking about. And to some extent, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Jay-Z, this “new Black”, covid-19 is going to deal with the “new Black”s real good. Obviously it’s going to be destructive or more destructive for our people. But thinking further out, that there’s been a bubble building up over time where we have been chasing a lot of these Black celebrities and leaders, but these people at the top are making these trades in the system that are unhealthy for us, not them. Our desires for freedom, justice and equality can’t be traded with some of this stuff that’s going on. So you go do your trades, but you don’t get the support of the masses just because you’re successful or just because you have money or just because we want more Black people to become successful. We can’t trade the politics for that. OK, we can support you commercially. Go get your money, go become a billionaire. Go get $200 million or $300 million, but don’t be trading where you’re pimping the Black political actor into going along with what I believe is a dirty political religion. J Edgar Hoover energy. It’s a rat psychology. I believe that this “new Black”, this Black that has become post-racial as Pharrell says, it’s not about race anymore. It’s about helping the Israeli Defense Forces raise $60 million.

28:59 — Jamarlin Martin: This “new Black” when covid-19 is done with them, you may see them in an FOI uniform, you may see them at a ADOS summit supporting reparations. You may see them on a Black nationalist Zoom lecture because covid-19 and MAGA before covid-19 is going to be pushing stuff to the surface and bring this bubble, it’s going to pop this “new Black” bubble that has been building up with these various actors in the negro elite class. And people chasing that, they don’t know that they’re being drawn into political fire. They’re being drawn in political corruption, where they no longer have the voice that they had before. They’re willing now to accept, just put a Black face on the ticket or put a Black on a Supreme court. I’ll throw you negroes some political chitlins, that that’s all you looking for now. You just want to see some type of symbolism within this “new Black”, this post racial Black, this Pharrell Black, this Jay-Z, Barack Obama Black.

Jamarlin Martin: So let’s talk about to understand J. Edgar Hoover energy, let’s quickly go through J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover, a great book to read about J. Edgar Hoover is really William Sullivan, who at one time was a director of COINTELPRO and was in the top three in the FBI. So he actually wrote a book, obviously he’s not going to tell us everything, but he talks about how J. Edgar Hoover was moving, particularly against Black America. So William Sullivan talks about how they had Stokely Carmichael’s bodyguard. I bet you they were laughing at some of our leaders who were fighting for freedom, justice and equality. They were laughing because they had the whole playbook. J. Edgar Hoover and William Sullivan, they got to Stokely Carmichael’s bodyguard. So pretty much the bodyguard was informing on Stokely Carmichael and whatever he was doing. OK. William Sullivan, in terms of the intimacy or the level that they were operating, they were following Angela Davis and they would get sex tapes of her. J. Edgar Hoover was so much of a freak.

Jamarlin Martin: He was so much into perversion, that they hid the sex tapes of Angela Davis from him. He would want to listen to Dr. King and Angela Davis and whoever. If they got some type of sexual activity on tape, he would want to listen and freak out to this stuff. So you’re talking about a very sick figure, J. Edgar Hoover. He has people in the Nation of Islam. He has people close to Dr. King. He has people close to Stokely Carmichael. He has people close to Angela Davis. The FBI and the U.S. government has all this information on the inside of these people. All they want to do is move their people forward. But the U.S. government has planted all these people on the inside to weaponize it against us. And so to weaponize it, how would they weaponize it? And so one, you want to discredit the leaders. Two, you want to neutralize it and water it down. J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI, they had someone that they had selected to water down Dr. King’s movement. They had selected someone to take over. Dr. King. They had support, but for some reason J. Edgar Hoover reportedly just did not pull the trigger, but they had been studying Black America and looking for people to work with people, to pay off and they found a negro and they said, “Oh, this guy would be perfect to water down the Black political psychology.”

33:06 — Jamarlin Martin: So Dr. King was bringing too much heat for the U S government and so they found a Pharrell, they found a “new Black” for that day. That’s J. Edgar Hoover energy. If someone is talking strong in terms of fighting for freedom, justice and equality, banging for Black America, OK. The goal is to put people on the inside and to water down. If you water down the organizations and the leaders, are you able to prop up a leader that is soft, that doesn’t want to tangle up with anybody that doesn’t want to make America uncomfortable? Let’s give them some money. Let’s give them some infrastructure. Let’s help them out and beat some cases. We know they did something and let’s trade for that. Where we’re going to move against you. We know you did something. We not going to put it out there, but you got to work with us. That’s J. Edgar Hoover energy. Any forces, you don’t have to be papered up with the U.S. government, the FBI, the NSA, or the CIA. You don’t have to be papered up to have J. Edgar Hoover energy. It’s just the way you’re moving, it looks like the informants of the past or the agents of the past. It looks like that you could be guilty of J. Edgar Hoover energy and not be papered up with the U.S. government, although I believe some of these people are papered up out there.

Jamarlin Martin: Malcolm X, my research shows that the FBI and other intelligence agencies, that they escalated. The central thrust of them moving against the Nation of Islam and moving against Malcolm X was the decline of Elijah Muhammad’s health. So they had informants giving them updates like Stokely Carmichael’s bodyguard. They had informants, who I believe to be, one big one is John Ali, but they had people inside of the Nation of Islam who would report back on Elijah Muhammad’s health. And so there could have been someone reporting back to say that Elijah could go within two years or three years. And so the calculation of the U.S. government is, if Elijah goes and he can go any day now because his health is declining, we’ve got to think about the possibility of Malcolm X.

Jamarlin Martin: Thanks everybody for listening to GHOGH. You can check me out @Jamarlinmartin on Twitter and also come check us out at Moguldom.com. That’s in M O G U L D O M.com. Be sure to subscribe to our daily newsletter. You can get the latest information on crypto, tech, economic empowerment and politics. Let’s GHOGH!